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bon-nirnam
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« on: January 11, 2011, 10:37:13 AM » |
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What do you think about disciplinary action taken against Nokhon Pathom(2 years suspension), is it justified in your opinion?
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BangkokGlassBunny
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2011, 11:51:44 AM » |
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It depends on whether the FAT were trying to overshadow the bad publicity they have been receiving or if it was to send a message that this type of thing will not be tolerated any more. Only time will give us an answer to that.
If we assume it was the latter, then yes, I think it was justified, albeit harsh on the true NP fans. Something had to be done as the treatment of officials was a joke and fans behaviour was starting to get out of control. If it has made people think twice, then yes, it was justifiable in my eyes.
I had a disagreement with Dale once about making an example of clubs. Of course in an ideal world, it would never have happened in the first place, but it did, so in my opinion, sometimes it has to be done otherwise you end up in a downward spiral with clubs/fans taking the attitude of 'well they got away with it, so we can too'.
But of course this only works and is justifiable if the FAT now stick to this and punish ALL clubs that step out of line in this way. Hopefully though, this punishment means we will never see another incident like this again.
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Forever Thai Port
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Posts: 8
Thai Port FC, Fulham FC
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 12:00:33 PM » |
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In my opinion it is way too harsh. Come on, two years! They took the fall for a discipline system that is flawed from top to bottom. Individuals within the club that were involved should have been banned for two years, not the club itself.
But like bunny said, if it changes the behaviour of fans across the country for the better, then it might have been the right decision.
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bon-nirnam
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 01:02:20 PM » |
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Thanks BangkokGlassBunny and Forevr Thai Port. Both of your opinion are reaally provide foundation to a few aspects of keys ellement for a successful league. It is in my opinion that all aspects of safety or crisis prevention hasn't thought of and imprement that lead to this predigament. In regarding to a harsh punnishment once and fore all, I don't think it is realistic ass far as human nature is concern. It sort of the thinking a long the line of spanking your kids, if it really works you'd only need to do it only once. On the other hand, something must be done. Go ahead take the action against the club and individuals involved. Banning trouble maker fans for whatever written rules stated (but where is the rule?). TPL, too, should be disciplined/punnished for conducting business without capabilities of guarranty safety in work place for game officials. As for the safety of the fans, visiting fans in particular, it should be a requirement of home clubs and approved by TPL and local laws enforcement.
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BKK73
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 01:25:52 PM » |
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I agree with others that the punishment is far too harsh especially for the majority of the Nakhon Pathom support who are well behaved. Why should they be punished because of the moronic behavior of a few idiots. In my opinion, a fair punishment would be jail sentences or large fines for the culprits and for the club I would have deducted points from them and warned them that any future misbehavior from the fans would not be tolerated.
Now that the FA have made an example of Nakhon Pathom, they'll have to treat future offenders accordingly. What will happen if the top clubs such as Muangthong or PEA Buriram offend in the future? Would they be suspended for 2 years? It certainly wouldn't be good for the Thai league to lose any of the top clubs.
I guess we'll only really be able to judge in 2 years time whether or not the punishment was justified. If we don't see anymore incidents of players/fans attacking the match officials and a decrease of crowd violence then we could say they punishment to Nakhon Pathom was worthwhile.
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wolfman
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 01:48:26 PM » |
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I think most of the relevant points have been covered here.
Yes, it's massive step up in punishment - like going from a slap on the wrist to a beheading.
*It is unfortunate for the majority, who are being punished for the actions of a few.
*Nakhon Patom must be wondering what exactly they've done wrong. They will be pointing at the much lighter punishments given to Army and Chai Nat for referee assaults last season, and noting the number of times Thai Port have been punished, without ever being in danger of expulsion.
*For me, the key is consistency. The TPL/FAT have now set a precedent, and this must now be applied to all clubs for future incidents, regardless of which clubs and/or people are involved.
Having a set list of punishments for certain offences, and giving the authorities the power to increase these for repeat offenders, would certainly help and bring much needed transparency to the disciplinary process.
I realise that it's impossible to cover all possible offences in writing, but the policy could be worded to specifically cover the more common (or predictable) misdemeanours, and other (extraordinary) offences could be covered in more general terms.
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Yellow Fever Yellow Fever
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bon-nirnam
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 02:54:52 PM » |
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Yes, diciplinary action is necessary as long as it fit the violation. But, if spanking works parents will only need to do it once. One of TPL's mission should be to grow the business and to do so with certain degrees of competency. As leagues and clubs getting older and stronger, more and more fans will identify themselves with ttheir teams. The stronger they field about their teams the lesser they will feel about their opposing teams fans or officials whose action deemed depriving of their teams's success. These things will happen and preventive measure as well as remedy must be in place. Cleary TPL, Club and local laws enforcement are not on top of their games. There are guilty parties that need to face appropriate discipline for there action but there are people who lives depend on employment with the club with whom had done nothing wrong. Running a football league is not that hard but running a professional football league with wide range of fans from broad backgrounds required high level of professional.
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the_englishman
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 04:21:13 PM » |
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It was the right punishment. As I said before, the moment the line was crossed was when club staff joined in the assault on the ref. Yes, like anyone else I pity the fans who did nothing but if the usual method of a quick 20,000 baht fine and one game behind closed doors had happened, this incident would repeat itself. Now I think any fan or staff member will think twice before acting like a moronic thug.
How many times have we complained about bullying, lack of respect and lack of punishment from the Thai FA? Now they've finally sent a strong message and we should applaud them for it.
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Vinnie
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 01:29:41 PM » |
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Way too harsh. They've set a precedent that they will not stick to. The punishment was just a reaction to the extensive media coverage the incident got, and to obviate the problem that would have arisen had Sisaket failed to beat Air Force.
What I would have done:
Life ban (and prison) for the guy with the gun.
2 year bans for the fans fighting on the pitch.
Season bans for the coaching staff.
NP start 2011 season on -6 points.
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the_englishman
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 04:22:49 PM » |
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What I would have done:
Life ban (and prison) for the guy with the gun.
2 year bans for the fans fighting on the pitch.
Season bans for the coaching staff.
NP start 2011 season on -6 points.
So you think the fans should be punished more than the coaches who threatened the ref? You think the staff who surrounded him, abused him and in one case perhaps struck at him were less guilty than the fans who ran on the pitch? The incident's morality is not affected by any failure to repeat the punishment in future. It's simply right or wrong in itself. IMHO it was absolutely right and I'm baffled that all of us who bemoan the TFA's pathetic punishments in the past are now disagreeing with a firm and clearly just penalty. |
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Vinnie
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 04:43:01 PM » |
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What I would have done:
Life ban (and prison) for the guy with the gun.
2 year bans for the fans fighting on the pitch.
Season bans for the coaching staff.
NP start 2011 season on -6 points.
So you think the fans should be punished more than the coaches who threatened the ref? You think the staff who surrounded him, abused him and in one case perhaps struck at him were less guilty than the fans who ran on the pitch? I'm referring to the fans that were using rather extreme violence such as jumping up and down on the prone Sisaket fan. |
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Vinnie
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 04:47:55 PM » |
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The incident's morality is not affected by any failure to repeat the punishment in future. It's simply right or wrong in itself. IMHO it was absolutely right and I'm baffled that all of us who bemoan the TFA's pathetic punishments in the past are now disagreeing with a firm and clearly just penalty.
There's no bafflement or confusion. In the past I've thought the punishments handed out were too light; I think this punishment is too tough. |
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wolfman
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 02:02:01 PM » |
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What I would have done:
Life ban (and prison) for the guy with the gun.
2 year bans for the fans fighting on the pitch.
Season bans for the coaching staff.
NP start 2011 season on -6 points.
So you think the fans should be punished more than the coaches who threatened the ref? You think the staff who surrounded him, abused him and in one case perhaps struck at him were less guilty than the fans who ran on the pitch? Under Judge Vinnie, are the fans being punished more? Definitely longer, but more? For the fans, you're simply removing a entertainment outlet. There's still Central, The Mall, EGV, and even other football grounds to go to for your average fan when Saturday comes. If enforced properly, the shorter ban on players/staff is more damaging, as it affects their livelihood. |
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« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 02:09:39 PM by wolfman »
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Yellow Fever Yellow Fever
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wolfman
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2011, 02:09:58 PM » |
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I've been giving these last few posts some thought. When you look at it cynically, perhaps it's not such a harsh penalty after all.
The club has been suspended, but are those concerned banned as well? We've already speculated that the owners may simply start up a new club with a different name. Does their punishment prevent this?
What about the players and the coaching staff, particularly those directly involved in the violence? Are measures being taken to prevent them simply transferring to other teams and clubs and resuming their careers?
You could argue that the FAT has taken the easy way out again.
* File criminal charges and prosecute/ban pitch invaders and assaulters of players/referees?
* Issue security with pictures of banned 'fans' and ask/train them to check anyone who resembles said photos?
* Ban coaches and players who assault referees from the game completely (during that ban), AND make it known that clubs/schools/teams that employ these folk during their ban will also face fines/bans/loss of points or championships?
Sod that, too hard.
Let's fine the club, or ban all the fans for a few matches, or completely disband the club. Job done, forgotten about, let's move on.
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Yellow Fever Yellow Fever
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glenn_pattaya
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Posts: 139
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2011, 09:20:38 AM » |
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I think the issue that they have got carried away over is the gambling issue which caused all the trouble. The whole problem was caused by a big army guys massive bet going down the toilet.
This issue has been a poison running through Thai football's veins for so long and I think they are just terrified that it will destroy the booming premier league. If every time a big man's bet goes wrong referees are assaulted and games are stopped by his minions then we will see the league slip back to the dark ages (sorry Dale). I think the punishment is over the top but I can see the message they are trying to send out to these politicians and military figures who are behind the clubs - we welcome your investment but leave the corrupt nonsense out of it.
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bon-nirnam
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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 10:09:08 AM » |
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In a football culture that president of association, team managers, coaches, media and fans blame the outcome of the game on the referees, we already we have a long long way to go and with people at the leadership levels acting and saying things without stop to think of its profound consequences this alone is a big mistake already. To ask people of such socially short sighted to come up with preventive measure seemingly absurd. Unfortunately, they were the people incharged and public has noone else to turn to. Accepting below the par football is bareable as the game will be relative to teams overall standard but accepting sleeziness corner cutting ignoramous that only will do whatever just enough to get by is realy realy a difficult thing to do. With available technology and affordable manpower, there is no excuse why security can't be better.
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