The Thai League Cup (Toyota Cup)

[lokomotive]

Just a few pics from the Korat v Loei match.

[the_englishman]

Kasetsart University were drawing 0-0 with Nonthaburi when they decided to walk off and not come back on. Therefore, the game was forfeited and Nonthaburi were awarded a 2-0 victory.

Desperately trying to get details on this but I can't find an Eka fan who can speak enough English to tell me. We have a farang coach now so I need to get hold of him.

[SriRachaShark]

Out of the sixteen matches played so far - all on Wednesdays - ten have kicked off at 15:30.
All this promotion and they play games at that time midweek! There are some things about football in this country that I will never understand.

The sponsors probably think that no-one will be interested until the "big boys" enter. Hence the rather indifferent attitude to the early rounds. We might see a change from the start of the next round. When the whole country will be out in force to watch the matches.

[druryfire]

Results from the qualifying round:

4 August 2010
Rose Asia United Thanyaburi 0 - 1 Nakhon Sawan Rajabhat University
Thai Summit Samut Prakan 2 - 2 (4-6) University of North Bangkok
Rangsit University 1 - 2 Thai Air Look Isan
Kasetsart University 0 - 2 1 Nonthaburi
Raj-Vithi (w/o)  Bangkok
Bangkok North Central ASSN 0 - 2 Kasem Bundit University

11 August 2010
Samut Prakan 8 - 7 Muangkan
Rayong 4 - 2 Sa Kaeo United
Nakhon Nayok 1 - 0 Kabinburi
Ang Thong 4 - 1 Prachinburi United
Nakhon Ratchasima 3 - 1 Loei City
Nong Khai 6 - 2 Surin
Chaiyaphum United 3 - 1 Mahasarakham City
Roi Et United 3 - 0 Ubon Tiger
Ratchaburi 2 - 0 Samut Sakhon
Singburi 3 - 2 Chiangrai
Phetchaburi 2 - 1 Pathum Thani

18 August 2010
Phattalung 0 - 0 (5-6) Hat Yai
Mukdahan 0 - 0 (2-5) Sakon Nakhon
Nakhon Si Thammarat 1 - 2 Trang
Phitsanulok 3 - 0 Uttaradit
Phrae United 1 - 0 Kamphaeng Phet
Tak 1 - 0 Phayao
Phichit 2 - 3 Sukhothai
Phang Nga (w/o)  Chumphon

[the_englishman]

So the next round is next weekend, right? But we have not had the draw yet, am I right?
So we could have teams travelling long distances with less than nine days to prepare.

[SriRachaShark]

I think that the draw will be made later today.

[SriRachaShark]

Samut Prakarn v Muang Thong
Bangkok FC v Thai Port
Korat v Samut Songkhram

[BangkokGlassBunny]

Samut Prakarn v Muang Thong
Bangkok FC v Thai Port
Korat v Samut Songkhram

and for those that support Bangkok Glass, we are away to Nontaburi

[the_englishman]

Samut Prakarn v Muang Thong
Bangkok FC v Thai Port
Korat v Samut Songkhram

and for those that support Bangkok Glass, we are away to Nontaburi

That may well get switched as there is no way to accommodate all your fans in that stadium.

[the_englishman]

Yeh I can't find the info anywhere. Who have Rajpracha got?

[BKK73]

Samut Prakarn v Muang Thong
Bangkok FC v Thai Port
Korat v Samut Songkhram

Where in the city do Bangkok FC play?

[wolfman]

Svein's post translated


28/08/2010 16:00 น. Kalasin v Buriram-PEA
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Uthaithani Forest v Pattaya United
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Sukothai FC v Thai Army
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Ang Thong v TTM FC Phichit
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Nakhon Rachasima FC v Samut Songkram FC
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Rajabhat University Nakhon Sawan v Police Utd
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Kasembundit University v TOT-CAT FC
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Petchburi FC v Navy-Rayong
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Sakon Nakhon v Naratiwat FC
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Phang-nga FC v Nakhon Pathom FC
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Nong Khai FC v Suphanburi FC
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Chayaphum Utd v PTT Rayong
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Rachaburi FC v Chiangrai Utd
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Nakhon Nayok v ABAC FC
28/08/2010 16:00 น. Prae Utd v Prachinburi FC
28/08/2010 16:00 น Yala FC v Chula Utd

29/08/2010 16:00 น. Nonthaburi v Bangkok Glass
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Samut Prakan FC v Muang Thong Utd
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Bangkok FC v Thai Port
29/08/2010 16:00 น. FC Phuket v Osotspa M-150 Saraburi
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Hat Yai FC v Bangkok Utd
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Tak FC v Sisaket Muangthai FC
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Pitsanulok FC v Chonburi FC
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Rayong FC v BEC Tero Sasana
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Trang FC v Thai Honda
29/08/2010 16:00 น. North Bangkok University v Air Force Utd
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Singburi FC v Chantaburi FC
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Petchabun FC v Suwanaphum Customs FC
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Chachoengsao Fc v Khon Kaen FC
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Thai Air-Luk Isan v Sri Racha FC
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Roi Et Utd v Rajpracha Nonthaburi
29/08/2010 16:00 น. Nakhon Phanom v Songkla FC

[slefevre91]

I'm surprised that non-league teams such as Uthaithani Forest and Chachoengsao made it into the First Round without going through the qualifying round.
What's up with that? 
Also I think there is a mistake in the fixtures: North-Central vs. Air Force United should be University of North Bangkok vs. Air Force United as North-Central lost their qualifying round match to Kasem Bundit!

[slefevre91]

Samut Prakarn v Muang Thong
Bangkok FC v Thai Port
Korat v Samut Songkhram

and for those that support Bangkok Glass, we are away to Nontaburi

That may well get switched as there is no way to accommodate all your fans in that stadium.

I believe it gives the chance for the lower league teams to play against bigger clubs at home to promote their fan base. Try to get the locals to come out and see their local team...which they may not have known about. But I do see your point about accommodation!
This is turning out to be more of a FA cup than the actually Thai FA cup!

[wolfman]

I'm surprised that non-league teams such as Uthaithani Forest and Chachoengsao made it into the First Round without going through the qualifying round.
What's up with that? 
Also I think there is a mistake in the fixtures: North-Central vs. Air Force United should be University of North Bangkok vs. Air Force United as North-Central lost their qualifying round match to Kasem Bundit!

I think there were a few withdrawals, so Chachoengsao and Uthaithani probably benefitted from being the odd team in their regions for the qualfying round.

As for the error in the fixtures, you're probably right. The result on the League Cup website has Kasembundit beating North-Central, but both that website and the FAT site have listed the fixtures as per Svein's post at this stage.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the fixtures list will stand to avoid someone losing face

[lokomotive]

@ Wolfman and slev

The reason for, why they didn't played in the first round was mentioned in my article.

Toyota League Cup - Draw for the qualification round was held today

[slefevre91]

Thank you for that article Loko. It explains it all! Do you know if this round has two legs..as Svein said? It would be a strain for clubs such as MT Utd and Thai Port to fit these matches in their 'ever-so' tight schedule.

[lokomotive]

yes its robin round. And for some clubs it might be a pain in the ass, drive along 1000 km, maybe by bus? and than have to play the return leg just 3 days later. Put a week in between, and you may fine. but not this way. I really like idea that the big ones have to spread around the country. On the other hand, playing robin round and than the outisder gets thumbed by 10 or 15 to nil just at home, so will they be happy maybe to travel a few hundreds km to get thumbed again away? why not doing it same like in england? let the small host the big, but only in one round. If it is a draw go on to the return. But at least the small club is may having a bigger chance to kick out a fat ass in just one game instead of playing 2 rounds wihtin 3 days. 

[druryfire]

yes its robin round. And for some clubs it might be a pain in the ass, drive along 1000 km, maybe by bus? and than have to play the return leg just 3 days later. Put a week in between, and you may fine. but not this way. I really like idea that the big ones have to spread around the country. On the other hand, playing robin round and than the outisder gets thumbed by 10 or 15 to nil just at home, so will they be happy maybe to travel a few hundreds km to get thumbed again away? why not doing it same like in england? let the small host the big, but only in one round. If it is a draw go on to the return. But at least the small club is may having a bigger chance to kick out a fat ass in just one game instead of playing 2 rounds wihtin 3 days. 

Loko, you just described the English FA Cup. Thailand mirror this in a crap way.

Thailand are now mirroring the English league cup on a 2 leg basis. But rushing it.

I think in France, they have a cup where all the top flight teams are drawn away. If they win by 8 or more, then the 2nd leg is cancelled to save face for the daunting away trip for the non league side. If it's less than 8, then the non league team get their day out. Again, not rushed, played at least a week later.

[lokomotive]

Yes of course I did a bit. Even I think that our German Cup rules are even better. On the other hand we do have only one Cup competition tough.

[the_englishman]

Samut Prakarn v Muang Thong
Bangkok FC v Thai Port
Korat v Samut Songkhram

and for those that support Bangkok Glass, we are away to Nontaburi

That may well get switched as there is no way to accommodate all your fans in that stadium.

I believe it gives the chance for the lower league teams to play against bigger clubs at home to promote their fan base. Try to get the locals to come out and see their local team...which they may not have known about. But I do see your point about accommodation!
This is turning out to be more of a FA cup than the actually Thai FA cup!

I'm sure it was and that was a point I made to Dr Vichit before they re-installed the competition (though I doubt he took any notice) but it's a reality of numbers. The Rama 9 Stadium holds, I would guess, about 1500 people. BG could overfill that allocation on their own, then what about home fans?  Most people in the area know about the team because they've been well publicised.

And speaking of league cups to a Cherries fan.......:-)

[the_englishman]

Here's a thought: it's good to see Nonthaburi get a big team like BG because it will finally give Kasetstart some punishment. They have not been given a formal penalty for their walk off and their petulant little rat of a coach at the time of the walk off said they didn't care because they wanted to focus on the league (so why turn up then?).

I wonder how he feels now, and how the players feel knowing they could've been lining up against Byrne, Sylla, Lang et al.

[lokomotive]

Bayern Munich had to play vs Germania Windeck in the first round of German FA Cup this week. Windeck is 5fth league club and their Stadium can host only 2.500. They made a smart move and used the Stadium from 1. FC Koln. 41.000 turned up and set a new record in Germany for an amateur club. Nonthaburi could to the same and maybe use the Thunderdome?

[druryfire]

On a safety point of view moving to a larger ground is a much better option, but I do myself like the thought of a TPL team and fans going to these smaller clubs and getting a taste of what it is like to be little.

Can you imagine the looks on some of the Muang fans for example who have only just found football in the TPL to have to go to a small dirty little compact ground. They wouldn't know whats hit them!

[the_englishman]

Bayern Munich had to play vs Germania Windeck in the first round of German FA Cup this week. Windeck is 5fth league club and their Stadium can host only 2.500. They made a smart move and used the Stadium from 1. FC Koln. 41.000 turned up and set a new record in Germany for an amateur club. Nonthaburi could to the same and maybe use the Thunderdome?

This was my feeling also - use the TD. But I also like Drury's idea and even as a MTU fan myself, the thought of all Nonthaburi's "high so"  being hosted by their "low so" neighbours would make me smile.

[slefevre91]

Samut Prakarn v Muang Thong
Bangkok FC v Thai Port
Korat v Samut Songkhram

and for those that support Bangkok Glass, we are away to Nontaburi

That may well get switched as there is no way to accommodate all your fans in that stadium.

I believe it gives the chance for the lower league teams to play against bigger clubs at home to promote their fan base. Try to get the locals to come out and see their local team...which they may not have known about. But I do see your point about accommodation!
This is turning out to be more of a FA cup than the actually Thai FA cup!

I'm sure it was and that was a point I made to Dr Vichit before they re-installed the competition (though I doubt he took any notice) but it's a reality of numbers. The Rama 9 Stadium holds, I would guess, about 1500 people. BG could overfill that allocation on their own, then what about home fans?  Most people in the area know about the team because they've been well publicised.

And speaking of league cups to a Cherries fan.......:-)

I believe the League Cup (Carling Cup) in England is not so much a 'biggie' as the top teams usually win in the end, so enjoy ur win u Saints fan...Brett Pitman will even the scores in the League...home and away! Thats if he doesnt leave before the transfer window is closed. :p

[lokomotive]

Bayern Munich had to play vs Germania Windeck in the first round of German FA Cup this week. Windeck is 5fth league club and their Stadium can host only 2.500. They made a smart move and used the Stadium from 1. FC Koln. 41.000 turned up and set a new record in Germany for an amateur club. Nonthaburi could to the same and maybe use the Thunderdome?

This was my feeling also - use the TD. But I also like Drury's idea and even as a MTU fan myself, the thought of all Nonthaburi's "high so"  being hosted by their "low so" neighbours would make me smile.

You are absolutely right. I think the same basically. But foe example, playing in a bigger stadium gives you the one time chances of earning a big amputn of money. And so thats what Windeck did. Their president told the commentator, that right after the draw he ordered the architect to go on and make some drawings. Cose they want to invest in the clubs facilities. I really loved it when he was talking about that, how to spend all that money. 

[druryfire]

I think thats fine Loko that some clubs have that dream to build a bigger empire and they do cash in when the time finally comes. But some clubs, similiar to were i am from are simply happy to stay at home and play to the home fans, why be put out for the bigger team coming?

Yes it doesn't happen often, so take your chance. You upset 50% of the hardcore fans, but you have more money.

On the other hand, do what your hardcore fans want, lose the money you could have had, and go to the wall like my Scarborough FC did.

[lokomotive]

Well Dru it depends. The scenario I descript above is not happen every time in Germany. They're clubs, which playing at home even they are from lower leagues.  I remember last year when a lower league club hosted several big clubs during their Cup run.  So it depend I think whether I am a RL club able to host 2000 vs Glass (just as example) or I am a RL club like Phuket beeing able to host 10-20000 (even you might be able to fill the stadium with 40+) 

[slefevre91]

Just comparing all the Thai cups with the Englsih cups....so this right:

Toyota League Cup = Carling Cup
Thai FA Cup = English FA Cup (obviously)
Kor Royal Cup = Community Shield
Super Cup = , its like a playoff with no aims...u just get a cup in the end and bonus money!
Queen's Cup = , this is similar to Emirates Cup, where teams are selected and invited to play.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It was just a thought in my mind.

[the_englishman]

I'd say you got it covered there.

[SriRachaShark]

Although I think that the Queen's Cup has much more history, prestige and tradition than the Emirates Cup.

[BKK_Mackem]

Do they have the equivalent of the Sherpa Van Trophy or the old Full Members Cup/Simod Cup? The latter one was probably the lowest attended of any cup competitions in England and many teams couldn't wait to get knocked out of it! It became a battle to try and lose games without making it look too deliberate. Trust me, I know when teams are trying to lose .. Sunderland have mastered it!

[wolfman]

I'm surprised that non-league teams such as Uthaithani Forest and Chachoengsao made it into the First Round without going through the qualifying round.
What's up with that? 
Also I think there is a mistake in the fixtures: North-Central vs. Air Force United should be University of North Bangkok vs. Air Force United as North-Central lost their qualifying round match to Kasem Bundit!

You are correct. It's been changed on the League Cup website, and I've corrected my post above.
On another issue, how can the League Cup website not be listing dates and times of the 2nd leg games, a week before they're due to be played?

[SriRachaShark]

I'm surprised that non-league teams such as Uthaithani Forest and Chachoengsao made it into the First Round without going through the qualifying round.
What's up with that? 
Also I think there is a mistake in the fixtures: North-Central vs. Air Force United should be University of North Bangkok vs. Air Force United as North-Central lost their qualifying round match to Kasem Bundit!

You are correct. It's been changed on the League Cup website, and I've corrected my post above.
On another issue, how can the League Cup website not be listing dates and times of the 2nd leg games, a week before they're due to be played?

They are all listed on www.thaileagueonline.com

[lokomotive]

I'm surprised that non-league teams such as Uthaithani Forest and Chachoengsao made it into the First Round without going through the qualifying round.
What's up with that? 
Also I think there is a mistake in the fixtures: North-Central vs. Air Force United should be University of North Bangkok vs. Air Force United as North-Central lost their qualifying round match to Kasem Bundit!

You are correct. It's been changed on the League Cup website, and I've corrected my post above.
On another issue, how can the League Cup website not be listing dates and times of the 2nd leg games, a week before they're due to be played?

They are all listed on www.thaileagueonline.com

Or even here in latin letters - but sorry, without KO times.

Toyota League Cup - 1st round

[wolfman]

.. how can the League Cup website not be listing dates and times of the 2nd leg games, a week before they're due to be played?

They are all listed on www.thaileagueonline.com

Thanks - I should have checked there first.

But my question still stands - what's the point of that pretty Toyota League Cup site, if other sites have more up-to-date information about their competition?

[BKK_Mackem]

Just a few pics from the Korat v Loei match.

Korat's ground will be a great place to watch football when they finish it and move the stadium near the pitch!

[lokomotive]

Homeless Samut Prakarn will have to take on MTU @ Thepasadin. More details to follow soon in an interview with Samut chairman Perapat.

..and here we go

A report an and interview with Samut Prakarn president Perapat Thanit can be found here

Prakarn Power - Homeless Samut Prakan FC is looking for a new "Fortress"

Perapat is talking about the actual situation of the club. The interview was not done by me.  I only did the translation from one of my editors.

[druryfire]

Anyone know any history of this competition? Is this the comp that was rebranded as the Yamaha Cup in the late 90's?

[druryfire]

For what it's worth, my contacts in Japan haven't got a clue why a Thai team could play in a Japanese Cup competition for winning this League Cup.

Seem's just a pre-season tournament, possibly against Regional sides in Japan. Is this what Thai clubs want?

[Vinnie]

So it is two legs but they've got all the Div 2 teams playing away in the second leg which pretty much rules out any chance of an upset.
Absolute f*cking joke of a competition.

[Vinnie]

Just a few pics from the Korat v Loei match.

Korat's ground will be a great place to watch football when they finish it and move the stadium near the pitch!

It'll also be a great place to watch football if the 4,000 fans who have buggered off because we're no longer top of the league come back.

[BKK_Mackem]

So it is two legs but they've got all the Div 2 teams playing away in the second leg which pretty much rules out any chance of an upset.
Absolute f*cking joke of a competition.

Probably true, but the old League Cup format in England used to throw up upsets years ago when 3rd/4th division sides were drawn against teams from the old 1st division over 2 legs.

It's good for the lower league sides to get a chance of pulling in some decent revenue, but it's debatable if many people will turn up for the second legs if the result over 2 legs is already a foregone conclusion.

Anyway, the likes of Nonthaburi, Bangkok Bravo and Samut Prakan are guaranteed a reasonable pay day for the first leg and presuming the money is shared over the 2 legs, they should reap a worthwhile amount from the 2nd leg.

Let's see what kind of sides the bigger teams put out in this weekend's games. I would think that most would put out a decent side as the majority of the players are not involved in international games next weekend and only Saraburi and BG have a TPL fixture. Two weeks until another meaningful fixture for many of the teams.

At the end of the day, it's up to fans if they want to watch only league games or every game their team plays. Since there is no meaningful reserve league or youth team league, then the extra cup competitions are an ideal opportunity for many teams to blood some of their lesser known players.

At the moment I'm not a fanatic of any team, so I'm intending to go and watch Samut Prakan v Muangthong tomorrow, BG v Nonthaburi on Wednesday and Thai Port v Bangkok on Thursday.

Try telling me the tournament is a waste of time    

[BKK_Mackem]

So it is two legs but they've got all the Div 2 teams playing away in the second leg which pretty much rules out any chance of an upset.
Absolute f*cking joke of a competition.

If they played away in the first leg, the tie would in most games already be over before the second leg and they would loose a payday at home. To give the lower teams homegame first is a good thing.

Next season I hope they start this cup a week or two before the TPL kicks off.

I agree with 66svein's comments. Giving the lower league sides the first game at home is a good idea. If Muangthong beat Samut Parkan 7-0 in the first leg at the Yamaha, how many S.P. fans do you think would turn up in the middle of Bangkok for an evening game? Not many ...

Does anyone know if the 2-leg format will continue in subsequent rounds of the competition?
Were that the case then the winning team, presuming it's a TPL side, will have to play 11 matches (12 if the final is 2 legs) to win the competition.

Starting the competition next season at the start of the calendar year would be a good idea.

[Vinnie]

So it is two legs but they've got all the Div 2 teams playing away in the second leg which pretty much rules out any chance of an upset.
Absolute f*cking joke of a competition.

If they played away in the first leg, the tie would in most games already be over before the second leg and they would loose a payday at home. To give the lower teams homegame first is a good thing.

Next season I hope they start this cup a week or two before the TPL kicks off.

I agree with 66svein's comments. Giving the lower league sides the first game at home is a good idea. If Muangthong beat Samut Parkan 7-0 in the first leg at the Yamaha, how many S.P. fans do you think would turn up in the middle of Bangkok for an evening game? Not many ...

Does anyone know if the 2-leg format will continue in subsequent rounds of the competition?
Were that the case then the winning team, presuming it's a TPL side, will have to play 11 matches (12 if the final is 2 legs) to win the competition.

Starting the competition next season at the start of the calendar year would be a good idea.

But is that the reason it's been scheduled the way it has? Of course not. It's been done this way to give the top teams the maximum chance of going through - which I wouldn't have a problem with if all the TPL sides were in the top flight on merit...

[wolfman]

Only 1 upset so far in the first legs, Ang Thong 1-0 TTM Phichit. all other results so far, the away side has won.

(based only on 1530/1600 kickoffs. Other results not in yet)

[lokomotive]

...hm Rayong only draw at Phetburi, Narathiwat lost to Sakonnakhon, Chiang Rai drew as well on away. And Suphanburi lost by 4:2.

[the_englishman]

Nonthaburi 0 BG 2 - report to follow.

[BKK_Mackem]

Nonthaburi 0 BG 2 - report to follow.

Nonthaburi's ground was quite close for you to attend today, right?

I went with BKK73 to watch MTU's second XI against Samut Prakan. Fairly comfortable win, although Samut Prakan's late goal will probably put a spanner in the works of the reserve goalie's dream move to Real Madrid in January